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	<title>Comments for Cogitating Duck</title>
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	<description>Right thinking on politics, religion &#38; philosophy</description>
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		<title>Comment on Bad news: national security train wreck! by jb</title>
		<link>http://cogitatingduck.com/2013/06/12/bad-news-national-security-train-wreck/#comment-1103</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jun 2013 01:33:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://cogitatingduck.wordpress.com/?p=1336#comment-1103</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Duck

That you cannot see this as an egregious privacy breach, but rather, playing the &quot;&quot;safety card&quot; -

Sheesh!  What do our gummintal masters have to do to get your attention?

Mosey on in &quot;safeness.&quot;  You should focus on how the gummint is scrambling all over the place to try to cover this, like Benghazi and the IRS scandal, to &quot;shooosh&quot; thi8ngs up.

The gummint has NO BUSINESS WHATSOEVER grabbing my info.  If you think they do ,then you have identified yourself.

IO don&#039;t need to be &quot;safe&quot; - I want to be free.  jb]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Duck</p>
<p>That you cannot see this as an egregious privacy breach, but rather, playing the &#8220;&#8221;safety card&#8221; -</p>
<p>Sheesh!  What do our gummintal masters have to do to get your attention?</p>
<p>Mosey on in &#8220;safeness.&#8221;  You should focus on how the gummint is scrambling all over the place to try to cover this, like Benghazi and the IRS scandal, to &#8220;shooosh&#8221; thi8ngs up.</p>
<p>The gummint has NO BUSINESS WHATSOEVER grabbing my info.  If you think they do ,then you have identified yourself.</p>
<p>IO don&#8217;t need to be &#8220;safe&#8221; &#8211; I want to be free.  jb</p>
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		<title>Comment on Bad news: national security train wreck! by cogitatingduck</title>
		<link>http://cogitatingduck.com/2013/06/12/bad-news-national-security-train-wreck/#comment-1101</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cogitatingduck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jun 2013 01:11:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://cogitatingduck.wordpress.com/?p=1336#comment-1101</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You keep returning to the idea that people in our current government are not trustworthy.  That is not the debate I&#039;m trying to have.  I am not barring myself or anyone from asking questions about anything. Neither am I necessarily &quot;trusting&quot; anyone or &quot;falling for&quot; anything.  I believe that making the right distinctions is important, because getting it wrong has disasterous consequences.  If you are still interested in debating the NSA&#039;s use of metadata, rather than a list of abuses at OSHA, EPA, IRS, or elsewhere in the Obama administation, then consider the following syllogism, and focus on delivering a refutation of one or more of the premisses.

1) Metadata analysis is a tool that can be used legitimately or abused.
2) Firearms are tools that can be used legitimately or abused.
3) In the US, the government is permitted to legitmately use tools that could be abused.
4) From premisses 1 and 3 it follows that the government is permitted to legitimately use metadata analysis.
5) At this point, there is no compelling evidence that the NSA&#039;s use of metadata analysis amounts to abuse (ie., is unconstitutional or immoral)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You keep returning to the idea that people in our current government are not trustworthy.  That is not the debate I&#8217;m trying to have.  I am not barring myself or anyone from asking questions about anything. Neither am I necessarily &#8220;trusting&#8221; anyone or &#8220;falling for&#8221; anything.  I believe that making the right distinctions is important, because getting it wrong has disasterous consequences.  If you are still interested in debating the NSA&#8217;s use of metadata, rather than a list of abuses at OSHA, EPA, IRS, or elsewhere in the Obama administation, then consider the following syllogism, and focus on delivering a refutation of one or more of the premisses.</p>
<p>1) Metadata analysis is a tool that can be used legitimately or abused.<br />
2) Firearms are tools that can be used legitimately or abused.<br />
3) In the US, the government is permitted to legitmately use tools that could be abused.<br />
4) From premisses 1 and 3 it follows that the government is permitted to legitimately use metadata analysis.<br />
5) At this point, there is no compelling evidence that the NSA&#8217;s use of metadata analysis amounts to abuse (ie., is unconstitutional or immoral)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Bad news: national security train wreck! by cogitatingduck</title>
		<link>http://cogitatingduck.com/2013/06/12/bad-news-national-security-train-wreck/#comment-1100</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cogitatingduck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jun 2013 01:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://cogitatingduck.wordpress.com/?p=1336#comment-1100</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have a clear definition of terrorism, and I have not found government officials using it in a way that contradicts it: the threat or use of violence intended to coerce a government or it&#039;s public.  Though it is true Obama he shied from calling Islamists terrorists.

It&#039;s important that people understand that terrorism isn&#039;t a catchall label to justify tyranny.  Otherwise our situation is that of the boy who cried wolf; when there is either real terrorism or real government abuse of the word &quot;terrorism&quot;--that is to be unjustly called an enemy of the state--we&#039;ll be powerless against it.  It&#039;s a lose-lose.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a clear definition of terrorism, and I have not found government officials using it in a way that contradicts it: the threat or use of violence intended to coerce a government or it&#8217;s public.  Though it is true Obama he shied from calling Islamists terrorists.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s important that people understand that terrorism isn&#8217;t a catchall label to justify tyranny.  Otherwise our situation is that of the boy who cried wolf; when there is either real terrorism or real government abuse of the word &#8220;terrorism&#8221;&#8211;that is to be unjustly called an enemy of the state&#8211;we&#8217;ll be powerless against it.  It&#8217;s a lose-lose.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Bad news: national security train wreck! by Russ White</title>
		<link>http://cogitatingduck.com/2013/06/12/bad-news-national-security-train-wreck/#comment-1098</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Russ White]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Jun 2013 11:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://cogitatingduck.wordpress.com/?p=1336#comment-1098</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A second point to consider: You are falling directly into the trap the government wants you to fall in to --focusing the act of exposing this information, rather than asking a full set of questions about whether this information should have been classified, whether this is really whistle blowing, etc. You&#039;re assuming that the people in the government who were building and running this program were all &quot;above board,&quot; and their intentions &quot;cover&quot; for their actions, no matter whether or not those actions were legal.

Some serious security folks don&#039;t think the answers to these questions are quite so clear as you do. For instance:

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/06/prosecuting_sno.html

Just something else to think about.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A second point to consider: You are falling directly into the trap the government wants you to fall in to &#8211;focusing the act of exposing this information, rather than asking a full set of questions about whether this information should have been classified, whether this is really whistle blowing, etc. You&#8217;re assuming that the people in the government who were building and running this program were all &#8220;above board,&#8221; and their intentions &#8220;cover&#8221; for their actions, no matter whether or not those actions were legal.</p>
<p>Some serious security folks don&#8217;t think the answers to these questions are quite so clear as you do. For instance:</p>
<p><a href="https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/06/prosecuting_sno.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/06/prosecuting_sno.html</a></p>
<p>Just something else to think about.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Bad news: national security train wreck! by Russ White</title>
		<link>http://cogitatingduck.com/2013/06/12/bad-news-national-security-train-wreck/#comment-1097</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Russ White]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Jun 2013 11:00:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://cogitatingduck.wordpress.com/?p=1336#comment-1097</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not so much as you might think, apparently. It turns out the one place they weren&#039;t looking for terrorists was... Where the terrorists normally hide -- in Mosques.

http://redflagnews.com/headlines/fun-fact-of-the-day-mosques-are-off-limits-to-obamas-snooping

The problem with all this talk of &quot;terrorism,&quot; and a &quot;war on terror,&quot; and all the intelligence gathering that goes with it is the slippery nature of the definitions involved. What is a &quot;terrorist?&quot; Is a fundamentalist Christian a terrorist? If mosques are &quot;off limits&quot; for this data gathering program are Churches, as well?

You imagine a world where these powers, and this information, is only used by &quot;good guys&quot; to get &quot;evil people,&quot; who live outside our borders. What has the IRS been doing for the last ten years? How about the EPA? OSHA? Have you even heard about their many abuses of power?

The &quot;other half of the Christian worldview,&quot; is that it&#039;s not just our enemies that are basically evil. There aren&#039;t just &quot;evil people out there,&quot; there are &quot;evil people in here,&quot; too. The line between good and evil runs through the center of every human heart.

What are you going to say when the definition of &quot;evil people&quot; changes, and you&#039;re now an &quot;enemy of the state?&quot; 

Is Snowden a hero? No. On the other hand, a President who approves or, or defends, the type of surveillance we&#039;re seeing here is no &quot;hero,&quot; either.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not so much as you might think, apparently. It turns out the one place they weren&#8217;t looking for terrorists was&#8230; Where the terrorists normally hide &#8212; in Mosques.</p>
<p><a href="http://redflagnews.com/headlines/fun-fact-of-the-day-mosques-are-off-limits-to-obamas-snooping" rel="nofollow">http://redflagnews.com/headlines/fun-fact-of-the-day-mosques-are-off-limits-to-obamas-snooping</a></p>
<p>The problem with all this talk of &#8220;terrorism,&#8221; and a &#8220;war on terror,&#8221; and all the intelligence gathering that goes with it is the slippery nature of the definitions involved. What is a &#8220;terrorist?&#8221; Is a fundamentalist Christian a terrorist? If mosques are &#8220;off limits&#8221; for this data gathering program are Churches, as well?</p>
<p>You imagine a world where these powers, and this information, is only used by &#8220;good guys&#8221; to get &#8220;evil people,&#8221; who live outside our borders. What has the IRS been doing for the last ten years? How about the EPA? OSHA? Have you even heard about their many abuses of power?</p>
<p>The &#8220;other half of the Christian worldview,&#8221; is that it&#8217;s not just our enemies that are basically evil. There aren&#8217;t just &#8220;evil people out there,&#8221; there are &#8220;evil people in here,&#8221; too. The line between good and evil runs through the center of every human heart.</p>
<p>What are you going to say when the definition of &#8220;evil people&#8221; changes, and you&#8217;re now an &#8220;enemy of the state?&#8221; </p>
<p>Is Snowden a hero? No. On the other hand, a President who approves or, or defends, the type of surveillance we&#8217;re seeing here is no &#8220;hero,&#8221; either.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Hackers, Pirates, Brats by Bad news: national security train wreck! &#124; Cogitating Duck</title>
		<link>http://cogitatingduck.com/2010/08/07/hackers-pirates-brats/#comment-1096</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bad news: national security train wreck! &#124; Cogitating Duck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Jun 2013 05:03:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cogitatingduck.wordpress.com/?p=71#comment-1096</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] I&#8217;ve given a piece of my mind on intel leakers in the past.  Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden are the bratty poster children for a grave generational defect. The simple reality is that our nation&#8217;s security is in the hands of Millennials, whose self-defined attributes include a sharply liberal political bent and &#8220;superior intelligence&#8221; according to a 2010 Pew poll. [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] I&#8217;ve given a piece of my mind on intel leakers in the past.  Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden are the bratty poster children for a grave generational defect. The simple reality is that our nation&#8217;s security is in the hands of Millennials, whose self-defined attributes include a sharply liberal political bent and &#8220;superior intelligence&#8221; according to a 2010 Pew poll. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Metadata monitoring a menace? Meh. by Metadata is not Just &#8220;Meh&#8221; &#171; Thinking in Christ</title>
		<link>http://cogitatingduck.com/2013/06/08/metadata-monitoring-a-menace-meh/#comment-1095</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Metadata is not Just &#8220;Meh&#8221; &#171; Thinking in Christ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jun 2013 11:00:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://cogitatingduck.wordpress.com/?p=1330#comment-1095</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] There has been a lot of talk this last week about &#8220;broad sweep&#8221; collection of phone records by the US Government. One of the key points made over and over again is that &#8220;it&#8217;s only metadata.&#8221; Obama, for instance, has said &#8220;it&#8217;s only a modest encroachment of privacy,&#8221; and the Cogitating Duck — who I often agree with — has this to say: [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] There has been a lot of talk this last week about &#8220;broad sweep&#8221; collection of phone records by the US Government. One of the key points made over and over again is that &#8220;it&#8217;s only metadata.&#8221; Obama, for instance, has said &#8220;it&#8217;s only a modest encroachment of privacy,&#8221; and the Cogitating Duck — who I often agree with — has this to say: [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Metadata monitoring a menace? Meh. by Caroline Smith</title>
		<link>http://cogitatingduck.com/2013/06/08/metadata-monitoring-a-menace-meh/#comment-1093</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Caroline Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jun 2013 13:52:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://cogitatingduck.wordpress.com/?p=1330#comment-1093</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You make a good point. Culture and values, and within that, worldview shaped by religious beliefs, are what really matter. Glad I read your post.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You make a good point. Culture and values, and within that, worldview shaped by religious beliefs, are what really matter. Glad I read your post.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Metadata monitoring a menace? Meh. by Slanderous Me (@walt1999walt)</title>
		<link>http://cogitatingduck.com/2013/06/08/metadata-monitoring-a-menace-meh/#comment-1092</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Slanderous Me (@walt1999walt)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jun 2013 00:57:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://cogitatingduck.wordpress.com/?p=1330#comment-1092</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The biggest concern is, of course, that those with totalitarian tendencies (democrats) will abuse the system and target their political enemies- just as they have done with the IRS,EPA DOA, and probably all the rest of gov&#039;t departments.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The biggest concern is, of course, that those with totalitarian tendencies (democrats) will abuse the system and target their political enemies- just as they have done with the IRS,EPA DOA, and probably all the rest of gov&#8217;t departments.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Rubio&#8217;s rhetoric: Right or wrong? by Grady</title>
		<link>http://cogitatingduck.com/2013/05/06/rubios-rhetoric-right-or-wrong/#comment-1083</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Grady]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 May 2013 21:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cogitatingduck.com/?p=1315#comment-1083</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I generally like Rand Paul, but I&#039;m also cautious of him.  He is usally well spoken, but he&#039;s also said things whenever Ron Paul enters into the conversation that don&#039;t appear to be nearly as well thought out.  He seems to be very solid on some ideas while potentially swayable on other issues, if approached by the right people.  I know this is just my perception of him, but I see him as someone well grounded in specific foundational ideas that don&#039;t always translate into clear decisions.

Rubio, on the other hand, has the foundational ideas, but he also appears to have a solid vision of what America should be to be the most prosperous and free, and that vision guides his decisions when the foundational ideas don&#039;t align specifically with one side or the other.  I also see Rubio leading a bit like Reagan did, with a masterful way of articulating his vision and getting others excited about the possibilities.  He&#039;s able to talk about the greatness of this nation extemporaneously better than any president in my lifetime, excepting Reagan, being able to do with a prepared speech.

Rand is a solid, rare politician while Rubio, even with his faults, is a unique, once-in-a-generation kind of politician.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I generally like Rand Paul, but I&#8217;m also cautious of him.  He is usally well spoken, but he&#8217;s also said things whenever Ron Paul enters into the conversation that don&#8217;t appear to be nearly as well thought out.  He seems to be very solid on some ideas while potentially swayable on other issues, if approached by the right people.  I know this is just my perception of him, but I see him as someone well grounded in specific foundational ideas that don&#8217;t always translate into clear decisions.</p>
<p>Rubio, on the other hand, has the foundational ideas, but he also appears to have a solid vision of what America should be to be the most prosperous and free, and that vision guides his decisions when the foundational ideas don&#8217;t align specifically with one side or the other.  I also see Rubio leading a bit like Reagan did, with a masterful way of articulating his vision and getting others excited about the possibilities.  He&#8217;s able to talk about the greatness of this nation extemporaneously better than any president in my lifetime, excepting Reagan, being able to do with a prepared speech.</p>
<p>Rand is a solid, rare politician while Rubio, even with his faults, is a unique, once-in-a-generation kind of politician.</p>
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